Obamacare a win with SCOTUS

For quite a while, I have argued that Obamacare would pass Constitutional muster.

This morning, I was proven correct. (Lucky me… I am 2-0 for the week)

Please keep in mind that this is a “conservative court”, but the next little bit should be interesting to watch.

The country will be very agitated due to both rulings this week, not to mention the Holder situation.

 

66 thoughts on “Obamacare a win with SCOTUS

  1. I am appalled. I do not see where this will ever end. If the federal government can force me to purchase insurance, specific insurance, or penalize me for having better insurance than others, where will this stop? Will I be forced to sell my truck next? Forced to stop consuming alcohol? Forced to actually go to the Dr, even if I don't want to? What brand of toilet paper will I have to use? And what will the penalties be if I refuse to be ruled by them in my private life?

    1. It won't stop until either we get the socialist out of our government or we become a purely socialist state. If the latter, them America is doomed to a very short existence.

      1. Recently I was looking over the countries that have socialized medicine, and we are in a very slim minority.I have to wonder how much of the concern is passed down to us from the cold war and how much is valid and can stand on its own.

        1. How many of those countries are looking a bankruptcy because of national dept, and how many of their citizens complain about the substandard health care they receive. I have friends that live in some of the Scandinavian countries with socialized medicine, according to the "official" numbers the health care system is great, but from what they have told me it is terrible. Most of the equipment is decades old, the doctors don't care about the patents because the state tells them what they can do, and they all get paid the same regardless of how good they are or how many patients they have.

      2. Plus add in the 4% additional federal tax on all real estate transactions, the 10% tanning tax and the fact that your employer paid healthcare will now be added to your taxable income, this was just a huge control and tax bill. It had NOTHING to do with actual health care.

  2. I do not believe this means that America has "socialized medicine" or necessarily will.

    We have a unique health care system in many ways, and while Obamacare changes much, it is not as if we now have a copy of the UK or Canada's or anyone else's system.

    There is frustration on the right, obviously, for oft heard reasons. There's frustration on the left too:
    – The individual mandate (e.g. TAX) was not the ideal way.
    – Public option would have been preferred
    – Straight forward "Medicare-for-all" approach is the ideal approach (again, from the left's point of view.)

    These aspects are relevant because they speak to whether this "proof will be in the pudding" in terms of whether Obamacare will actually address the healthcare crisis in terms of the following general criteria.
    1. Cost control.
    2. Quality assurance.
    3. Promotion of general welfare (e.g. covering every body).

    To sum it up… Obama cleared the Constitutional hurdle, and it was significantly more of a serious hurdle than anticipated.

    For folks that are anti- and pro- and then the rest of us who just want peace of mind if they get sick, one way or another… we are all far from out of the woods yet.

    1. Considering how fucked our system is, I think this may just be a painful start to a recovery. Provided that the congress and following sessions of congress continue to work on the real issues there is a chance.However if this ends up being a party line piece of crap, then we will just continue to be hosed. The system itself is broken, and the big dollar groups are fighting like hell to keep it that way.There is no EASY fix, but steps have to be taken to start the repairs. You don't restore a classic car in a day, just like you can strip out generations of greed and corruption.

      1. I agree, it needs to start somewhere and no one said it was going to be easy or painless.

        Like Coggy, I would just like to have peace of mind when I or my kids get sick. It really sucks to be with out coverage. Right now I don't have any and I am scared shitless because if I get sick again or hurt I am fucked because I have no way to pay for emergency/urgent care let a lone an office visit. I already owe SWWMC a ton of money and that could of been avoided if I was able to get insured.

        My employer at the time had a 'loop hole' so they were able to classify me as unqualified yet let me work full time hours. If I was insured I would of went in much sooner and avoided a lot of the problems caused because I didn't want to go in because I couldn't AFFORD it. It took my man to pick me up, pack me in the car and drive me to urgent care, they took one look at me and said I needed to go to the hospital and once I was there I was in surgery in less than an hour.

        1. I'm sorry to hear this d.

          Above and beyond the frustration of hearing your story and knowing very well that similar stories are common… I am also bugged by the thought: What if so much of America didn't have to cope with such drag on their livelihood? Wouldn't such general public safety clear a space for economic growth? I think it would.

  3. This is no surprise for me. The system is broken, but is this way the best? I'm still not sure. Because of this the Dems lost control of the congress in 2010. The only option now is to repeal it. Control the congress and control the nation. The Prez is a spokensman and a cheerleader, but the only constitutional power he really has is thru the veto power of his pen, and somewhat by executive orders.

    Once something becomes law it is usually very difficult to remove. Like it or not, it's here and unlikely to go away. This and the IRS could go away and I would be one happy camper.

    1. It won't go away now, regardless of what the Republicans say about repealing it. Very seldom is a law, once upheld by the SCOTUS, repealed. I find it incredible that it is considered a tax, and therefore constitutional.

      It will be tweaked with though. You can count on that, and the tweaks will probably make it worse.

      I like what John Stossel had to offer a couple of weeks ago, http://reason.com/archives/2012/06/14/why-should-….

          1. Oh yes, this should get very entertaining for me, the "sick" person that I am, in the humor department. I bet I will get a lot of milage from all this.

      1. It needs fixing somehow. Chances are they can only tweak it. what I'm worried about is that they screw up more than fix it. Example, the IRS and the tax laws. Everyone reconizes that we as a country need some form of tax system. But what the tax system has become is a monster, that really doesn't function well.

        Converting it to something simple, like a nation wide slaes tax system on everything sold, with no exemptions would eliminate alot of the tax woes. But, changing it to some smart way of doing, whatever that is, with these guys would be a miracle.

        1. The tax system is a great example. The IRS agents, tax attorneys, tax preparers, accountants, etc will all fight for dear life to keep the system as it is or more complex.their paychecks depend on it. Imagine a system that was so straight forward that it could be done by the employer and not even need much of a filing, unless it were an amendment.Okay, fantasy time is over, time for me to head to my stress test and see if I can strap on some tanks this summer.

          1. As Governor William J. Le Petomane so aptly said in the movie "Blazing Saddles": "We have to protect our phoney baloney jobs here, gentlemen! We must do something about this immediately! Immediately! Immediately! Harrumph! Harrumph! Harrumph! "

                1. If you find it on an off network, watch it. I am more amused by how much they cut. I have it on DVD, directors cut, with extra scenes. Mel was a genius!

                1. Don't blame him, it was sheer genius. That scene always reminds me of Saturday Night around the campfire at the Deer Lease. It brings tears to my eyes, and some of them can make you gag too.

      2. That is the question!

        And honestly I dont think any of them have the balls to fix it and or improve it because they are only out for their own agenda and not interested the welfare (be it financial, physical or mental) in their community and the nation.

  4. Well, the SCOTUS did say that the Healthcare Act is unconstitutional under the commerce clause, but the Congress used the backdoor to the IRS to get it in under the taxation clause and make it constitutional. I agree with the dissenting justices. And, all the talk about Roberts being too conservative in his confirmation hearings are now proven to be erroneous. With this ruling, he is more liberal than anyone would have thought.

    1. Love the picture. And, yes, I miss him a little.

      And, I bet he was surprised by Roberts' vote. I am wondering, if Roberts switched his vote at the last minute.

      Regardless, the age of the impartial Supreme Court and Federal Court system is long past. Seems that now, no one is impartial to judge anything.

      1. George is a great person. I have a picture of him and Laura hanging in my office. However, I was not happy with his last two years in office. I wrote him numerous times and told him my concerns.

        This is George.
        As a joke, a hardware store here in town sent him an employment application just after he left office. A couple of Saturadays after that, George shows up at the hardware store with his application totally filled out and spends about three hours at the store talking with customers and employees. He drove himself over there.

        1. Great anecdote. I think he always sincerely enjoyed being with people and isn't a lot of put on or imperial in his thoughts. Unlike the current occupant of George's previous job.

          1. Here is why I've always likes George. We had season tickets to the Ranger Games along with an excellent parking pass right across the street from the front gate into the ballpark. My wife's aunt and uncle used those tickets for their first ever Ranger game.
            On the way to the gate, Her aunt lokks up and says,"well hello, govenor Bush. My name is Wanda and this is my husband Robert. We are so excited, we have never been to a Ranger game before. The next thing you know is that Wanda and Robert are sitting next to the future president of the United States, eating hot dogs and driniking Pesi. After they went home, at few days latter they received a hand written letter on the govenor's stationary aobut how much he enjoyed watching the game with them that day. They had the letter and the ticket stubs famed together and hanging in their house.

          2. Here is why I've always liked George. We had season tickets to the Ranger Games along with an excellent parking pass right across the street from the front gate into the ballpark. My wife's aunt and uncle used those tickets for their first ever Ranger game.
            On the way to the gate, Her aunt looks up and says,"well hello, govenor Bush. My name is Wanda and this is my husband Robert. We are so excited, we have never been to a Ranger game before. The next thing you know is that Wanda and Robert are sitting next to the future president of the United States, eating hot dogs and drinking Pesi in his personal box. After they went home, a few days latter they received a hand written letter on the govenor's stationary about how much he enjoyed watching the game with them that day. They had the letter and the ticket stubs famed together and hanging in their house.

            1. That kind of action is why I always have liked him. And, I think his Dad and Mom are very similar in personality.

              I sure wish Jeb would take a shot at President in 2016 or 2020.

              Anyway, your story, demonstrates what a good guy he is.

            2. I have always heard that he was a good man, and I believe that he is on a human level. That is a point that I don't think that I have ever argued unless it was while I was unreasonable due to my anger.I just felt that he was never fit to be the President.

              1. I understand your point. But, I also know that he is a whole lot smarter than what people ever give him credit for. He just doesn’t project confidence in his mental abilities towards others. Smart or not, doesn’t automatically translate into being a good president. I thought/think highly of George, the man. Compared to Mr. Clinton, I would nominate him for Sainthood. Clinton, I consider a scum personally, but as president between the two, as much as I absolutely hate to say this, I would have to rate Clinton, by far a better president. George was a fair war time president but his economic policies were terrible. Blame it on him or the people around him, they were awful.
                Obama seems very intelligent, but he hasn’t fared much better than George at this point. In many respects, it’s much worse. IMO.

  5. Here's what I see as a synopsis of the event.

    SCOTUS says the mandate is unconstitutional under the commerce clause.

    SCOTUS says the mandate is constitutional under the taxation provisions of the Constitution.

    So………

    If you are forced and required to purchase insurance under the mandate clause, that is a violation of the commerce clause.

    But, if you don't purchase health insurance under the mandate clause, then that fine is a tax and is constitutional.

    How confusing can SCOTUS make this? I doubt this is the last time we will see it taken to court.

  6. The one advantage to this ruling as I see it. They can now pass the federal law requiring ALL Americans to have a loaded weapon in their homes for the purpose of home defense, to assist the police and reduce crime. Anyone that cannot show that they keep a loaded defensive weapon in their home within reach can be "taxed" to support the extra policing power that will be needed to help protect them because they refuse to protect themselves.

    "Home Defense and Police Assistance Act"

      1. I figure, when hell freezes over. And considering we are sucking all the heat out of hell this summer, it might happen early next year. Well, here's to hoping.

  7. A tax or not a tax, that is the question. Here is what it looks like to me. By year 2015, if you do not have health insurance and are single, then expect to pay a "fine" on your tax return over $600, and, if you are a family, expect your "fine" to be over $2,000. No, it's not a tax, it's a choice to buy health insurance or not. If you choose the 'or not,' then you get to add this fine to whatever you owe the IRS in taxes. Call it whatever you like, what this boils down to is another burden on the middle class. I remember Mr. Obama promising us all not to raise taxes on anyone who makes less than $200K a year. Well, technically, he hasn't "taxed" us. But we get to choose to pay the IRS, none-the-less.

    Me thinks, someone Lyeth in Washington, DC.

    1. Well now, with the ruling, by law it is a tax. Regardless of what the Dems want to call it, the law has been deemed a tax and it is on the books. The Dems can spin it anyway they want, but it is now legally a tax. Calling it anything else, is lipstick on a pig.

        1. If we go to a flat tax, or a national sales tax, or the "Fair Tax" or 999 plan then we do away with the personal income tax. Basically taking the teeth out of the bite. They can impose all the tax penalties they want if we reform the tax code to do away with income tax. I think that is our best shot at putting Obama-don't-care into a stalemate.

          1. I'm good with trying any of the above tax systems. The one we have right now doesn't work. It seems to me that a national sales tax might work best. I would do it on everything sold including real estate, and no exemptions period, even for churches. If you buy it then you pay for it, tax included. Everyone including the rich fat-cats get to pay that way.

            What I fear most about this is that they will do this and still kept the old system around too.

            1. I like the way Herman Cain envisioned the transition from our present system to the 9-9-9 plan to a federal sales tax. The only things that I think should be exempt are drugs and food. It would be difficult to assert that the tax was being unduly levied on the poor if the necessities of life were exempt.

    2. Well now, with the ruling, by law it is a tax. Regardless of what the Dems want to call it, the law has been deemed a tax and it is on the books. The Dems can spin it anyway they want, but it is now officially a tax.

    3. Well now, with the ruling, by law it is a tax. Regardless of what the Dems want to call it, the law has been deemed a tax and it is on the books. The Dems can spin it anyway they want, but it is now legally a tax.

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